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Post by LonelyArtist on Mar 29, 2009 0:23:11 GMT
I know, Teri! I HATE the reasons that it's banned! I've said this before, but I hate the "kids need a male and female role model!" argument. WHAT ABOUT SINGLE PARENTS!! Grgh.
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Post by Stacey Morgan on Mar 29, 2009 0:39:46 GMT
For. The Fourteenth Amendment. comes to mind. I couldn't comment on the religous side of the debate simply because I'm not. But I can see all of your points, religous, political or otherwise.
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Teri
Junior Member
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained. - Mark Twain
Posts: 61
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Post by Teri on Apr 2, 2009 15:56:28 GMT
Yeah, exactly! I have lots of friends who only have one parent.
You know, I've always wondered how they argue their point in court. Like, legally, how do they argue against gay marriage? I can just imagine when they get to the supreme court and the lawyer for gay marriage comes up...
"Well your honour, we pay taxes, we have rights like any other human being, there's nothing illegal about what we do. We're the same as anyone else, why should we get the same laws and rights the heterosexuals get?"
And then they ask the other lawyer and he's like, "Your honour... THEY'RE FUCKIN QUEER!!"
Like, how do you justify that?? xD
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Post by †. a l i c e on Apr 3, 2009 0:58:04 GMT
Ah, the eternal debate. I'm definitely for gay marriage, though I really don't like that I have to say that! It shouldn't be an issue; it shouldn't be in the courts! Actually, we were talking about this in class the other day...
Ask so many people, and they'll all tell you they're in favour of equal rights for homosexuals. Just name the situation, and ask. They'll all say, yes, gays should have the same rights in housing, jobs, public accommodations, and should have equal access to government benefits, equal protection of the law, etcetera, etcetera.
Then you get to gay marriage.
And that's when all this talk of equality stops dead cold.
More than half of all people in the United States oppose gay marriage, even though three fourths are otherwise supportive of gay rights. This means that many of the same people who are even passionately in favour of gay rights oppose gays on this one issue.
Why all the passion? It's because there is a lot of misunderstanding about what homosexuality really is, as well as the erroneous assumption that gay people enjoy the same civil rights protections as everyone else. There are also a lot of stereotypes about gay relationships, and even a great deal of misunderstanding of what marriage itself is all about and what its purpose is.
Let me give you a couple examples of things people have said in court that have, surprisingly, won so many courts' favours:
Marriage is an institution between one man and one woman.
Same-sex couples aren't the optimum environment in which to raise children.
Gay relationships are immoral.
Marriages are for procreation and ensuring the continuation of the species.
Same-sex marriage would threaten the institution of marriage.
Same-sex marriage is an untried social experiment.
Same-sex marriage would start us down a "slippery slope" toward legalized incest, bestial marriage, polygamy and all kinds of other horrible consequences.
There are a few more, too, all of which are VERY weak arguments in my opinion. How any of this actually stands up in court is beyond me. =/
HAHAHA! My laugh out loud of the day... XD
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Teri
Junior Member
When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained. - Mark Twain
Posts: 61
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Post by Teri on May 30, 2009 1:48:37 GMT
Jeez, that's a lot of disturbing facts. =/
...
-faith in humanity plunges deeper into the negatives-
Glad I made you laugh, Alice. =D
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Post by LonelyArtist on May 31, 2009 3:02:26 GMT
Ugh. The procreation thing is stupid, too. I'd be ok with that argument if infertile heterosexuals weren't allowed to marry...
Although, I really wouldn't. That'd be even worse.
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Ramok
New Member
The German Obsessed Australian
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Post by Ramok on May 31, 2009 6:07:32 GMT
I'm all for gay marriage.
I can understand that, what with Christianity and what not. But last time I checked, it wasn't the only religion to have marriage. What ever happened to the ancient Greeks and their culture? Bisexuality was a normal every day thing until the Romans came with Christianity. If love between two men or two women wasn't supposed to be, then why is it possible? (not to bag Christians here, just stating observations)
So love between two people is a social experiment now? Where have I been all this time?
Like LonelyArtist mentioned about infertile heterosexuals. Wouldn't that be contradictory to the statement of procreation?
Incest is illegal to prevent children being born with deformities and such right? Bestial marriage is illegal to prevent animal abuse, yes? Since when are gay people into incest? And the Bestial Marriage... What, are we animals now? I must have been living under a rock for the past 15 years.
Queer originally meant 'strange'. I'm fairly sure gay people aren't the only strange people in the world. I mean, gosh! What about people who want to marry comic book characters?
I personally don't believe one should have to have a fancy ceremony, gold ring and peice of paper to say you love someone, but if we can't have marriage, then I say we should have something that is equal to marriage. Y'know, give all the same legal benefits and so on.
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Post by Gamoc on May 31, 2009 14:19:52 GMT
Same-sex marriage would start us down a "slippery slope" toward legalized incest, bestial marriage, polygamy and all kinds of other horrible consequences. Incest - Is it not common to hear stories of guys being attracted to their sister and raping them or something? I'm afraid I've heard very few stories of gay incest. Bestial Marriage - That is, in no way related to gay marriage. Bestiality and homosexuality aren't even on the same plane due to one is a same and the other is a different. Homosexuality is same-sex attraction and Bestiality is different specie attraction. Polygamy - That's bullshit! Look at people like Brigham Young, they had a million wives. Then I can tell you of MANY straight people who are more than happy to be with more than one person at a time. Plus, you here of threesomes between men and women more than men and men/women and women. |
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Post by LonelyArtist on May 31, 2009 23:32:04 GMT
The thing I hate the most about the religious side of it is that religious people against gay marriage are often not against different religions. The Jewish and Christian religion (Old Testament) denounces "false gods" a LOT more than homosexuals. It just seems backward to me.
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kanariya
New Member
I wanna be a bear
Posts: 17
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Post by kanariya on Jun 13, 2009 16:19:58 GMT
I'm for gay marriage, but my country (Norway) allows it, either way.  But I've heard a few arguments used in court before it got accepted. Things like insulting towards religions, homosexuality is unnatural, teaching children to think that homosexiality is a "ok"-thing and marriages are limited to a man and a women only. Quite weak and stupid arguments if you ask me.  And I have to agree with you, LonelyArtist. ~nodding~ |
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Post by †. a l i c e on Jul 21, 2009 17:51:24 GMT
Those are some really good arguments, Ramok. I iz impressed. ^^
Okay, I am in NO WAY defending people who are against gay marriage here, but what they are trying to say is not that homosexuality is related to beastiality and incest. They're saying if we legalize gay marriage, then everyone will want to legalize incest and beastiality as well. But, as Ramok said, those two things are illegal to protect animals and children. Gay marriage is just illegal because people are ignorant and close-minded. =/
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Post by burningflamingoes on Jul 25, 2009 4:57:00 GMT
Most non-human animals I know are not capable of consenting to a committed relationship with a human. Most children are not yet capable of understanding what a sexual or intimate commitment entails. I am so tired of slippery slope arguments I could scream. A relationship between two committed, consenting same-sex adults is nothing like a relationship between a man and his goat or a man and his underage girlfriend.
As for the arguments kanariya mentioned, here are my responses:
1) A government sanctioning legal, civil marriage between consenting same-sex adults has nothing to do with religious marriage ceremonies or rites. If a religion is insulted by the government of its jurisdiction legalizing gay marriage, that is their problem.
2) Homosexuality is not "unnatural". This is a very tired argument. Homosexuality is observed in numerous non-human animals (in "nature"). There is increasingly verified evidence that homosexuality is innate in humans (you are born with it). There is also evidence that among families with multiple boys, the younger boys are much more likely to be gay than the older ones. This lends support to the theory that homosexuality may be an evolutionary response to overpopulation.
3) I personally think that teaching children that homosexuality is "ok" is a wonderful idea. People are terrified that telling kids this will encourage them to "become" gay themselves, or to experiment sexually with same-sex peers. First of all, Christian "change" ministries have all but proven that you can't change someone's sexual orientation (and they use electrodes, not words). Secondly, many kids experiment sexually with all kinds of peers, same- and opposite-sex alike. They don't need a reason to do so. They just do.
With as many LGBT youth that are depressed, suicidal, homeless, or who have successfully committed suicide, I think that teaching children that homosexuality is "ok" is not only an okay idea, but absolutely crucial.
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But I've heard a few arguments used in court before it got accepted. Things like insulting towards religions, homosexuality is unnatural, teaching children to think that homosexiality is a "ok"-thing and marriages are limited to a man and a women only. Quite weak and stupid arguments if you ask me. 
